The Cultural Moment


Whenever I spend time with Caleb he always exposes me to lot's of new books, theological issues, authors, and podcasts. He really likes a podcast called This Cultural Moment [John Mark Comer & Mark Sayers]. It is two pastors talking about how to live in a "post-Christian" country. 


In this episode, they discuss their concern that the culture has evangelized us [rather than the other way around]. These 4 statements got my attention:
  • Christians consider it normal to go to church only every 4 weeks. 
  • The spiritual disciplines are practically gone among Christians.
  • The smart phone is a greater threat to the west than secularism ever was. 
  • Christians can't be sent into the world to be missionaries if they are not spiritually formed or they will be eaten up by the culture. 
Can I give a Valleybrook assignment? Will you listen to this linked 27 minute podcast then interact over what struck you? If you were in my on-line class the assignment would be 

        listen to the pod-cast, 
        give your response, 
        respond to two other posts. 

You can post about what struck you, what challenged you, one of the above statements, or anything else.

Thanks for playing.

Pastor Brian 

Comments

James said…
I think this was a really helpful discussion. I had a couple of thoughts regarding the comments the sorts of past decisions that have brought us to this point (e.g. the economics of Reagan, the relevant church movement, the success of Switchfoot, and the sexual revolution) and the practices which have been lamentably lost (e.g. church attendance and the lack of spiritual disciplines). I often encountered these matters in discussion of biblical literacy. Some would argue the as biblical literacy has declined, so has the Christian culture (or some similar verbiage and connection). I’ve tended to see it another way: if biblical literacy is an indicator of individual and corporate commitment to being and making disciples, it is, evidently, not sufficient to sustain the church across generations. In other words, if biblical literacy or, as the podcast notes, the spiritual disciplines are so crucial, why is it that they have not produced a community of people capable of living by faith and not by sight across the generations (again, I’m being provocative as it is clear that the church has and will continued to be sustained for all time)?

Obviously, I don’t want to argue against the spiritual disciplines. Of course they are important and, in practicing them, we embrace the logic of the Scriptures (a Theo-logic) that helps us to avoid conforming to the patterns of the world. I’m not seeking to shift away from the disciplines. I would simply clarify that the disciplines are a means of reinforcing and/or “testing” God (in the Mal 3:10 sense) so that we come to know Him through our experience. The disciplines, in part, are a means by which we get out of our own way so that we can more fully experience God and his power within (individually) and among (corporately) us. If the church does not sustain itself, but is sustained by God, we would be wise not to seek to do through fleshly strategies what only God can do through the power of the Holy Spirit within and among us.

My concern is that the spiritual disciplines not be put forth as a solution to a problem or a behavior change technique. I’ve given advice similar to that offered at the end of the podcast (i.e. not picking up your phone first thing). I have also tried to frame that advice as holistically as possible so that it does not become a self-help technique, but a moment of trust in which we recognize, for instance, that (1) God is deserving of our firstfruits, (2) God has redeemed the time and in doing so given us a freedom from the sorts of anxieties and pressures that often drive one to obsess about being on their phone, (3) God offers a deeper, lasting sense of satisfaction and peace as he reorients our misdirected desires rather than reinforcing and leveraging those misdirected desires in an endless loop of consumption, etc. Overall, I thought the podcast was quite good. In a relatively short timeframe, I think they did what they could do. I have the sense that were I to listen to more of their episodes, many of my concerns would be put to rest. From this particular episode, however, I found myself agreeing with much of what they said while being left wondering whether they had done enough to convey that (a) doing life together as a church is not a coping mechanism, but a means for us to marvel at and demonstrate the “manifold wisdom of God” to the powers that be, (b) that personal spiritual disciplines aren’t a means by which we “better ourselves” or make our lives more livable but are practices that demonstrate our commitment to know God more deeply, or (c) how our easy adoption of seemingly less threatening technologies (e.g. cars) continue to hinder our ability to come together as one people of faith in order to be well-formed to the image of Christ.

Really good listen. I enjoyed the discussion and the opportunity to throw out some initial thoughts
Melanie said…
I am not very eloquent in my speaking or writing, but I will try to write out some thoughts. I listened to the podcast. It was a great discussion. I think the thing that stuck out to me is our need for community. I have seen this even in our communities where we live, the need to be social and interact with others. The need to be "seen" and "heard". So the question I would ask is, how does the church or us do this and do it well? The act of community?

I know several people who refuse to go to church because they don't feel apart of the community. They think that the people in the pews really don't care about them and if these people don't care why would Jesus care about them.

The men in the podcast don't address this just the need to get back to the basics. Following Jesus, doing the spiritual disciplines and living in community. Which in my opinion can be very simplistic, but the key as well. Which I ask my question again, if we are Jesus followers, how do we live in community and do it well for others to see Jesus in us?

I hope this made some sense. This is way out of my comfort zone to do this. So thanks for the stretching.

Brian Smith said…
James,

I too have concerns about turning the disciplines [Bible, Prayer, Fellowship, Giving] into a "magic" fix. There are those who are faithful Bible readers and are still missing the boat. I think you are emphasizing that we need to find not only right practice but right motive and right expectations. Good point.

I also like your emphasis on the importance of coming together in fellowship as a key. I am working on a message right now [before I was distracted by the technology of the internet] where I take the line from the movie Defiance [not a movie I would recommend] and apply it to a the concept of a weekly Sabbath meal. A group of Jews during WWII escaped to a forest and lived and survived together. The famous line is "our revenge is to live." Let me modify that to "our defiance against the world, the flesh, and the devil is to glorify God by choosing to live together on purpose." More on Sunday.
Brian Smith said…
Melanie

Very eloquent! And right on.

Let me toss out a concept that I am still working on and thinking through:

A church community made up of families that choose to have a weekly family Sabbath meal together and that invites other families in the church to join [occasionally]. This would require a disciplined scheduling effort by everyone in the family; but it is a way to defy the tyranny of letting the culture control us and define us. Key elements that would define this: make it regular, invite Jesus in, invite others in, make it extravagant - spend some money!, laugh, start with just your family then open it up, end by praying this week's prayer requests that VB sends out monthly, everyone share a praise, everyone share a prayer request, don't make it boring, don't make it last forever, have dessert!, start by reading a verse or psalm, encouraging words.

What do you think?
Brian Smith said…
Just to clarify - Family Sabbath Meal starts with this being your individual family practice that then expands to inviting other church families together.
Mark Schwiebert said…
I will jump in.

I really liked the podcast and sent it on to a couple people that I thought may enjoy it. But, that didn't surprise me as I usually find these philosophical and theoretical discussions interesting (even when I disagree with the premise).

For me, it helped understand/frame the current culture we live in. I think he called it digital capitalism/expressive individualism. What is going on these days is baffling to me as it is so far from how I was raised, what I hold true and important and what seems so obvious that the world needs. This helped me make some sense of it.

We do need to be careful of thinking we (the church) can find a quick and easy fix. Just like the idea that making the church more hip/relevant was the answer we can't now just replace that with spiritual disciplines and living in community. We need to be careful that we don't just jump in and implement another practice and miss the principle. What we all need is to be transformed into the image of Christ, what he called the way of Jesus. That is what the world needs, always did and always will. God is the designer and he knows what is best to make the design (world/society/us) operate the best way. We would be wise to learn and apply what he has taught us. (which I think is what they were saying with getting back to basics and following good spiritual disciplines....as the way to the answer not as the answer).

In any case, it is nice to hear some younger voices out there encouraging Christians to stand up to the culture and remind/challenge us that what the world need is for us to emulate Christ.
Anne Geroulis said…
I think that one of my a-ha moments was how our current culture eats away at our ability to have limits, authority and commitment. When we no longer have “cultural” Christians who think it is normal to attend church on a weekly basis, the church loses its opportunity to breathe life into the members of the Church. Church also has a need for authority and this being absent from our culture, especially anyone raised after my generation has presented a situation where everyone makes their own rules and resists the authority of the church AND the authority of Jesus. It was interesting that they applied these conditions not only as a blight to the Church and Christianity but also to western society where everyone makes their own rules and has their own opinion of what is right. We are seeing this in our communities as schools are crumbling and turning away from that which is good, beautiful and true and the disrespect with which folks treat each other.

I believe another point from this is the impact that the past year and a half has had on the Church and our overall sense of “community” in our secular world. I believe that one of Satans tactics is to separate people so that they are alone and believe the lies that they tell themselves and the despair when they have no one to rely on. This past year our sense of community in general was jeapordized as churches and schools and even families were forced to be separated. Our family did not feel the impact as much as I have witnessed in other families because we refused to give up meeting together and formed a smaller community to fill in the gap. Pete was very clear that we had to do life with people and meet for prayer and study instead of only attending on line. We continued fellowship with friends and have been able to hold strong in our faith. I have noticed though that it has been easy to get out of the habit of in building church and notice that we have failed to be there every time the doors are open. It happens quickly and easily.
Unknown said…
Phil

In the 80’s Neal Postman wrote “Amusing Ourselves to Death”
Boy, if he could only have seen the day of the smart phone!